{"id":5213,"date":"2022-08-22T15:31:35","date_gmt":"2022-08-22T13:31:35","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/interviews\/"},"modified":"2022-09-14T17:08:33","modified_gmt":"2022-09-14T15:08:33","slug":"interviews","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/en\/interviews\/","title":{"rendered":"Interviews"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-l74srz6j-caa21577f0d535acb859d8da13385b2c\">\n#top .av-special-heading.av-l74srz6j-caa21577f0d535acb859d8da13385b2c{\npadding-bottom:10px;\n}\nbody .av-special-heading.av-l74srz6j-caa21577f0d535acb859d8da13385b2c .av-special-heading-tag .heading-char{\nfont-size:25px;\n}\n.av-special-heading.av-l74srz6j-caa21577f0d535acb859d8da13385b2c .av-subheading{\nfont-size:15px;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='av-special-heading av-l74srz6j-caa21577f0d535acb859d8da13385b2c av-special-heading-h3  avia-builder-el-0  el_before_av_hr  avia-builder-el-first '><h3 class='av-special-heading-tag '  itemprop=\"headline\"  >Interviews<\/h3><div class=\"special-heading-border\"><div class=\"special-heading-inner-border\"><\/div><\/div><\/div>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-1pqid4b-467623acec32ee6fd39afb811ac187af\">\n#top .hr.hr-invisible.av-1pqid4b-467623acec32ee6fd39afb811ac187af{\nheight:50px;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='hr av-1pqid4b-467623acec32ee6fd39afb811ac187af hr-invisible  avia-builder-el-1  el_after_av_heading  el_before_av_one_fifth '><span class='hr-inner '><span class=\"hr-inner-style\"><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n<div  class='flex_column av-4blhzf-6d8ddfd6634b51acae91136aa062a0f7 av_one_fifth  avia-builder-el-2  el_after_av_hr  el_before_av_one_fifth  first flex_column_div  '     ><p>\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-l78sz54d-3b85ab1e453c74824461c2ba82f563e4\">\n.avia-image-container.av-l78sz54d-3b85ab1e453c74824461c2ba82f563e4 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https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/LM-502582-80x80.jpg 80w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/LM-502582-36x36.jpg 36w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/LM-502582-300x300.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 180px) 100vw, 180px\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><br \/>\n<div  class='avia-button-wrap av-l78sxpvk-d6fc264a59db19c861a7426e8c9b240c-wrap avia-button-center  avia-builder-el-4  el_after_av_image  avia-builder-el-last  button-indi'>\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-l78sxpvk-d6fc264a59db19c861a7426e8c9b240c\">\n#top #wrap_all .avia-button.av-l78sxpvk-d6fc264a59db19c861a7426e8c9b240c{\nborder-style:solid;\nborder-width:2px 2px 2px 2px;\nborder-color:#595959;\ntransition:all 0.4s ease-in-out;\n}\n#top #wrap_all .avia-button.av-l78sxpvk-d6fc264a59db19c861a7426e8c9b240c:hover{\ncolor:white;\ntransition:all 0.4s ease-in-out;\n}\n#top #wrap_all .avia-button.av-l78sxpvk-d6fc264a59db19c861a7426e8c9b240c:hover .avia-svg-icon svg:first-child{\nfill:white;\nstroke:white;\n}\n<\/style>\n<a href='#ingo-niermann'  class='avia-button av-l78sxpvk-d6fc264a59db19c861a7426e8c9b240c av-link-btn avia-icon_select-no avia-size-large avia-position-center avia-color-white avia-font-color-black'   aria-label=\"Ingo Niermann in an interview with Leonore Mau (2005)\"><span class='avia_iconbox_title' >Ingo Niermann in an interview with Leonore Mau (2005)<\/span><span class='avia_button_background avia-button avia-color-theme-color-highlight' ><\/span><\/a><\/div><\/p><\/div>\n<div  class='flex_column av-1vif17-81f50b216a05fa6644274e362c926b77 av_one_fifth  avia-builder-el-5  el_after_av_one_fifth  el_before_av_hr  flex_column_div  '     ><p>\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-l7kcbupw-b6ccdc03d4280d327ac75e218fb03906\">\n.avia-image-container.av-l7kcbupw-b6ccdc03d4280d327ac75e218fb03906 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https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LM_2006_Nd-36x36.jpg 36w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LM_2006_Nd-120x120.jpg 120w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LM_2006_Nd-450x450.jpg 450w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LM_2006_Nd-100x100.jpg 100w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 180px) 100vw, 180px\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><br \/>\n<div  class='avia-button-wrap av-l78t0rir-f2ea5e2b1193acbf98a32bde0bea0a1c-wrap avia-button-center  avia-builder-el-7  el_after_av_image  avia-builder-el-last  button-indi'>\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-l78t0rir-f2ea5e2b1193acbf98a32bde0bea0a1c\">\n#top #wrap_all .avia-button.av-l78t0rir-f2ea5e2b1193acbf98a32bde0bea0a1c{\nborder-style:solid;\nborder-width:2px 2px 2px 2px;\nborder-color:#595959;\ntransition:all 0.4s ease-in-out;\n}\n#top #wrap_all .avia-button.av-l78t0rir-f2ea5e2b1193acbf98a32bde0bea0a1c:hover{\ncolor:white;\ntransition:all 0.4s ease-in-out;\n}\n#top #wrap_all .avia-button.av-l78t0rir-f2ea5e2b1193acbf98a32bde0bea0a1c:hover .avia-svg-icon svg:first-child{\nfill:white;\nstroke:white;\n}\n<\/style>\n<a href='#nathalie-david'  class='avia-button av-l78t0rir-f2ea5e2b1193acbf98a32bde0bea0a1c av-link-btn avia-icon_select-no avia-size-large avia-position-center avia-color-white avia-font-color-black'   aria-label=\"Nathalie David in an interview with Leonore Mau (April 2006)\"><span class='avia_iconbox_title' >Nathalie David in an interview with Leonore Mau (April 2006)<\/span><span class='avia_button_background avia-button avia-color-theme-color-highlight' ><\/span><\/a><\/div><\/p><\/div>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-8hmy57-7c8424ff993ec705ee9a6ba06ad2f115\">\n#top .hr.hr-invisible.av-8hmy57-7c8424ff993ec705ee9a6ba06ad2f115{\nheight:120px;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='hr av-8hmy57-7c8424ff993ec705ee9a6ba06ad2f115 hr-invisible  avia-builder-el-8  el_after_av_one_fifth  el_before_av_one_full '><span class='hr-inner '><span class=\"hr-inner-style\"><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n<div  class='flex_column av-4hd6u3-36f47f661df5be169b5c79dce3aa747c av_one_full  avia-builder-el-9  el_after_av_hr  el_before_av_hr  first flex_column_div  '     ><section  class='av_textblock_section av-l7etmnw7-f2e381b024c6880d16c6102382ba7677 '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock'  itemprop=\"text\" ><h4><strong>Ingo Niermann in an interview with Leonore Mau (2005)<\/strong><\/h4>\n<\/div><\/section><\/div>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-l7etno2j-4e58bd48933477ad1997aed83872f7a0\">\n#top .hr.hr-invisible.av-l7etno2j-4e58bd48933477ad1997aed83872f7a0{\nheight:25px;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='hr av-l7etno2j-4e58bd48933477ad1997aed83872f7a0 hr-invisible  avia-builder-el-11  el_after_av_one_full  el_before_av_one_half '><span class='hr-inner '><span class=\"hr-inner-style\"><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n<div  class='flex_column av-1npvp17-d755fed08d257347520db1d558afd767 av_one_half  avia-builder-el-12  el_after_av_hr  el_before_av_one_half  first flex_column_div  '     ><section  id=\"ingo-niermann\"  class='av_textblock_section av-1mk57iz-1d530e02c1a7289400c053ff07a69445 '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock'  itemprop=\"text\" ><p><strong>Ingo Niermann (IN): What brought you to photography?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Leonore Mau (LM): Every person\u2019s life develops in some direction. Life holds all kinds of accidents in store. How did two people who married get to know each other? There are so many absurd stories. Like a friend of mine who left the house one evening in the pouring rain to post a letter and from the opposite direction a man with an umbrella approached the letterbox, also with a letter in hand. In that moment \u2013 he became her husband. Likewise: how do you end up with your profession?<\/p>\n<p>After doing my Abitur I went to art school, but with our flight from Leipzig to here in Hamburg in \u201945 we were left with nothing, absolutely nothing. It takes years before you can lead a normal life again. As a refugee you are a second-class citizen until you suddenly shift up to become first class again because you are doing something that\u2019s successful.<\/p>\n<p>It all came down to me managing to get a camera, a Leica, and what I actually wanted was\u2026 but why am saying all this? I am a photographer, period.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: And did you immediately realise: this is now my profession?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Yes, I was never a casual kind of photographer. Once I\u2019d got the camera in Hamburg and started using it, with the very first film I shot I produced the cover photo for a Hamburg harbour magazine. It took off right away. Even though I took very few photos of Hamburg.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Hamburg didn\u2019t interest you much?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: There are plenty of fantastic photos of Hamburg, it\u2019s enough when other people do that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: You then started photographing houses for architecture magazines.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: I was once asked by an editor if I also photograph architecture? And since back then I was still married to an architect and knew a bit about it, I started doing this and earned good money with it, which I urgently needed in order to buy really good camera equipment.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: After moving in with the author Hubert Fichte in the early \u201960s what was your first joint project?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: We made <a href=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/en\/zum-werk\/fotofilme\/\">photo films<\/a> for German television. First here in Hamburg \u2013 <a href=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/en\/zum-werk\/fotofilme\/der-tag-eines-unstaendigen-hafenarbeiters\/\"><em>Der Tag eines unst\u00e4ndigen Hafenarbeiters<\/em><\/a>. Then in Sesimbra in Portugal. Actually, the reason we went there was because we loved the sound of its name. It used to be a very beautiful fishing village by the sea, but being so close to Lisbon it has now turned into a tourist hotspot. In the middle of the village there was a <a href=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/en\/zum-werk\/fotofilme\/der-fischmarkt-und-die-fische\/\">fish market<\/a>, and in fact all I photographed was fish. For a 20-minute film you need about 500 or 600 photos. That\u2019s a lot, but I absolutely loved doing this work. Hubert Fichte then selected them, decided on their sequence and how long each image should last: he edited the film.<\/p>\n<p>Then I made another photo film in Rome on the <a href=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/en\/zum-werk\/fotofilme\/die-spanische-treppe\/\"><em>Spanish Steps<\/em><\/a>. They were always crowded with young people, then at the top was this elegant hotel from where elegant people descended. For the whole time we were at the Villa Massimo, that was where I went.<\/p>\n<p>Sadly, photo film as a medium is no longer particularly en vogue. Otherwise I could compile a photo film, for instance, from all my documentary material on African-American religions.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Your research into African-American religions started in 1968 with a journey to Brazil. How did this trip come about?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: For a start, we had enough money at the time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Hubert Fichte had just published his novel <em>Die Palette<\/em>.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Yes, and he had earned quite a bit of money with it. Then we bought our tickets, first for a short trip \u2013 three months, which is not so long.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: And what made you decide on Brazil?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Because we knew that the most beautiful rites took place in <a href=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/en\/zum-werk\/rituale\/brasilien\/\">Brazil<\/a> \u2013 those of Candombl\u00e9 \u2013 and because we could speak Portuguese.<\/p>\n<p>We would pass through a favela at night, always following the drumming. Wherever it sounded the loudest and most beautiful, we\u2019d stop in front of a hut. But we didn\u2019t go inside; instead, we just waited. The people have a sixth sense \u2013 or seventh or eighth \u2013 and after a couple of minutes two of them came out and asked us what we were looking for. Since we answered in Portuguese, they were instantly well disposed towards us and invited us to come inside. I asked them if I could also take some photographs. They then talked among themselves for a while without realising that we perfectly understood what they were saying. What they said was, \u201cHere are two people from Europe and the woman wants to take photos. But there\u2019s no harm in it since the gods won\u2019t allow it, so nothing will appear in the photos.\u201d But the gods allowed it after all; it was all there on film.<\/p>\n<p>After our three months were up, we decided to raise money to return for a full year because the most important festivals happen throughout the year. And we photographed all of them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: The interest in African-American religions not only led you to Africa. But on your trip to the Royal Court of Abomey in Benin you also brought a message from the priestesses of the Brazilian temple Casa das Minas, which is said to have been founded 300 years before by an enslaved daughter of the King of Abomey.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Everyone in Brazil knows what the Casa das Minas is. The priestesses are held in great esteem. We told them we were travelling to West Africa and they gave us a message and\u00a0a tape with a recording of their singing to take to the Royal Court of Abomey. As a mark of his ambassadorship, Hubert Fichte received a colourful glass bead necklace. Each colour and the respective positions of the glass beads to one other represent something in particular.<\/p>\n<p>At the Royal Court, once they\u2019d inspected the necklace and listened to the singing on the tape, they took a large sheet of paper and wrote an invitation to the <a href=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/en\/zum-werk\/rituale\/brasilien\/\">priestesses<\/a> of Casa das Minas.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Did they understand the Brazilian singing and the necklace?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Yes, they were deeply impressed and moved.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Did the priestesses take up the invitation?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: I don\u2019t think so. Somehow or other we would have heard about it. The priestesses of the Casa das Minas told us that they would have to go to Abomey one day because something was missing in one of their rites. So Hubert Fichte said, \u201cWe\u2019d better start right away. Twice a week, we\u2019ll study French.\u201d Hubert began teaching them French and it was all going very well, but then he died.<\/p>\n<p>Later, the priestesses sent me a message via someone who was coming to Germany to say that the Casa das Minas wished the necklace to be returned. Just imagine how people here in Germany reacted when I told them about this: What, some old string of glass beads? You must be nuts. \u2013 No, it\u2019s a very special glass bead necklace and I don\u2019t want to discuss it with you anymore. I flew to Brazil and brought the necklace back to them. They were so thrilled, it was lovely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: At the Royal Court of Abomey you also took the fascinating and disturbing picture of a young boy wearing an empty blister pack of pills as a mask.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: We were standing on the street looking around us. Suddenly I saw the boy standing there. Without any explanation I told Hubert Fichte, I\u2019ll be back in a moment \u2013 because I was afraid the boy might run away. I asked him to stand still because I wanted to take his picture \u2013 which thrilled him.<\/p>\n<p>Children in West Africa are unbelievably skilled in imitating things from found rubbish or simple materials. Recently there was a film about Senegal where confecting imitation toys has become a veritable industry.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Have you never taken a picture without asking first?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: No, I\u2019ve always kept to the rule I set myself never to become the unsolicited photographer who collects people. In fact I\u2019ve always asked first, at ceremonies too. Whenever we heard that there was a temple somewhere or other, we first went there without a camera, introduced ourselves and asked if we could participate. And when they agreed, we stayed through to the end. Not shyly, just snatching a glimpse the way tourists do, but sometimes really for twelve hours at a time.<\/p>\n<p>Hubert was a genius at scouting things out. And he always got what he wanted \u2013 it was amazing, he had such an aura. We were refused just once: but that was understandable because it was a secret ceremony. Otherwise it always worked out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: There\u2019s a description by Hubert Fichte in his book <em>Petersilie<\/em>: \u201cA boy has strapped on an airplane, blood-smeared metal, mirror shards. He\u2019d bound bulging lips studded with boars\u2019 tusks to his face, which he took off when Leonore wanted to photograph him.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: That could very well be because there is a superstition \u2013 very strong in Islamic countries \u2013 and you have to be very careful because they believe you\u2019re taking their identity away from them. I never insisted, never said, \u201cBut I want this, do this for me\u201d. I never ran into difficulties because this is something I always respected. But on the other hand, there were also times when I turned up without my camera and someone would ask, \u201cWhere is Kodak?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Did it ever happen that someone was willing to let you photograph, but it still struck you as indiscreet?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: The line between indiscretion and fascination is very, very thin. In Brazil once, there was catastrophic flooding caused by rain. It poured for days on end and all the favelas slid down the mountain, and for days we couldn\u2019t get out of the little house we\u2019d rented because it was surrounded by water.<\/p>\n<p>When I finally managed to get out and head towards the centre of the city with my camera, there were dead bodies in the streets, completely swamped in mud. I was about to photograph them when the police saw me with my professional equipment \u2013 and they immediately tore off the sheets covering the dead. They practically challenged me, with friendly gestures, to take a picture. And I did as well \u2013 it is featured, very small, in the photo book <em>Xango<\/em>, along with this story.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: In West Africa, in the \u201970s, you shot photos of the mentally ill who were being held in public places. Didn\u2019t they feel as if they were on display?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: On the contrary. They were excited to have so much attention being paid to them. No problem at all. That was in Togo or Benin. The people who \u2013 as is said \u2013 aren\u2019t normal, they weren\u2019t put in clinics, but instead staked out on the public squares. That way, they\u2019re still part of the community; people talk with them. Children especially like talking to them and they like talking to children. Of course, sometimes people also laugh at them, but they\u2019re never treated badly. That\u2019s what we honestly observed, we spent a whole day in such a village. No aggression.<\/p>\n<p>Of course, it is horrible too, but they don\u2019t have any money for a hospital. And ultimately, when you think about it, you can be declared insane by society \u2013 it happens very quickly \u2013 and then you are lying there all day long, more or less looking at nothing but white walls. That\u2019s a perfect recipe for going mad.<\/p>\n<p>In Africa they also have completely different explanations for mental illness; for example, bad treatment of dead family members. If you don\u2019t honour them properly. If someone breaks society\u2019s rules, it doesn\u2019t mean he is immediately cast out. You\u2019d really have to be stark raving mad before they say: he is ill.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: How did you first get involved with mental illness and psychiatry in West Africa?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: In Senegal, there were many intellectuals we spoke to who told us about the famous <a href=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/en\/zum-werk\/projekte-und-themen\/psychiatrische-doerfer\/\">psychiatric school in Fann<\/a> and accompanied us there as well. We spent three weeks there in 1974. Very nearby was a small, respectable hotel. Without knowing about it beforehand, this too was where we experienced an amazing solar eclipse. The employees in the hotel were trembling with fear \u2013 they had the feeling that everything had come to an end, the end of the world, the end of life. That was quite formidable.<\/p>\n<p>Fann was run by the French professor Henri Collomb. We also flew with him in his small plane to Casamance, to the psychiatric village there he founded. The village was constructed in such a way that the sick could live together with members of their family. They had their own little straw huts and could cook there as well.<\/p>\n<p>Once a week, the doctors would meet with a patient and his family for a <em>pinth<\/em>, which in Wolof means \u201cget-together\u201d. The case would then be discussed, but most of the doctors only spoke the colonial language, French. Only one of them was able to speak Wolof because his wife was Senegalese. Hubert Fichte wrote about this in his text, <em>Gott ist ein Mathematiker<\/em> (God is a Mathematician). If you can\u2019t speak to someone declared mentally ill in his own language, that\u2019s insanity to the third degree.<\/p>\n<div id=\"links-link-5213\" class=\"sh-link links-link sh-hide\"><a href=\"#\" onclick=\"showhide_toggle('links', 5213, '&gt;&gt;&gt;Read more', '&gt;&gt;&gt;Show less'); return false;\" aria-expanded=\"false\"><span id=\"links-toggle-5213\">&gt;&gt;&gt;Read more<\/span><\/a><\/div><div id=\"links-content-5213\" class=\"sh-content links-content sh-hide\" style=\"display: none;\"><\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: What are your thoughts about traditional healing as compared to modern Western psychiatry?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: I can\u2019t really say much about it since I can\u2019t compare the results. But the fact is that in traditional African therapy a tremendous amount of care and attention is given to the ill.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: In an interview with Hubert Fichte, Henri Collomb said that Western psychiatry was taking care of people in Africa who previously, since they couldn\u2019t be moderated using traditional means, might have been driven out into the bush or even killed.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: In Fann they used medicines which are also used here, but in entirely different dosages, and some of these medicines have quite pernicious effects.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: You also photographed the administration of electric shocks.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: I thought to myself, \u201cyou have to photograph this\u201d, because this is something Collomb had actually declared inappropriate for the hospital in Fann. But there was still an old pavilion where this was being done. It was so awful. The plug was simply stuck in the wall socket, then something broke in the brain.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: There\u2019s something of a renaissance for electric shock treatment happening right now.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Yes, I\u2019ve heard that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Although not in such high doses.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Something\u2019s being measured, but the brain is still a mystery and there\u2019s still so much to research about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: In an interview with Hubert Fichte some of the doctors said that they administer electric shocks not only because there was a lack of certain medicines, but also because family members specifically ask for it. For them, an electric shock is comparable to a ceremony of ritual death.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Only that whatever gets broken in the brain is not even understood by people here in Europe yet.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: In Senegal you also photographed a particularly intense traditional healing ceremony, the <em>N\u2019Doep<\/em>.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: A mentally ill woman is made to sit on a bull. The bull is then killed and, the person and the bull are\u2026 not exactly \u201cburied\u201d, but several sheets are thrown over them and she has nothing but a small hole to breathe through. Afterwards, she is rubbed all over with the blood and wrapped in the bull\u2019s intestines. You could say a kind of olfactory shock therapy. It\u2019s such a shock that many patients really do return to normal life. Just imagine, you\u2019re buried with a dead bull and then its blood is rubbed all over you. And then you have to dance for hours on end. You\u2019re never left alone, and this goes on for a full week. And if they didn\u2019t have success with this method, they wouldn\u2019t do it. Then people would say you\u2019re all crazy. But it works.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: In <em>Explosion<\/em>, the novel about your trips to Brazil, Hubert Fichte describes how you tried to find all the ingredients for an initiation drink \u2013 which is practically impossible because there\u2019s an incredible number of different terms for them or the same terms for different ingredients. Just before you returned you drunk this indeterminate potion. Do you have any recollection of this?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Oh, yes, I still remember. On the plane, I felt something itching, but when I tried to touch it my hand went somewhere else entirely. After two days, everything was back to normal.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Did you also let rituals be conducted on you?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: No. We were very strict about that. Hubert Fichte once told a priest in Venezuela who\u2019d begun sticking needles in him, \u201cIf you do that, we\u2019ll never come back\u201d. We wrote about it and photographed it, but in such a short space of time it would have been impossible, it would have been a complete lie to decide to take part in it. At the most, and there\u2019s a very fine photo of this, a priest once ended up, at six in the morning, daubing a sign on his forehead with a bloody finger.<\/p>\n<p>Besides, when you\u2019ve got the camera you\u2019re somehow also protected from getting carried away with it all. It once happened to me when we went to Haiti for the third time and were invited to a ceremony by a voodoo priest. It\u2019s fantastic how they drum, and after three hours I wondered, \u201cWhat\u2019s going on?\u201d My legs completely gave way and Hubert Fichte just managed to catch me. So basically, I\u2019d fainted. That never would have happened to me if I\u2019d had my camera. You\u2019re so awake then. But without it \u2013 naturally, they were very pleased to have this white woman experience what it was all about.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: The best known German ethnographic photos are surely the Nuba photos taken by Leni Riefenstahl.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Yes, the photos themselves are remarkable. For me, they\u2019re too close to being advertising photos, too beautiful, really. But she was an incredible person. That she cannot throw off her association with the Nazis is her bad luck. But her film about the Nuremberg rally is extraordinary because it documents how the Nazis turned the Germans into a machine, a functioning machine. I\u2019d like to see someone else try and do that. Loads of people immediately say, oh, Leni Riefenstahl, that creepy old Nazi \u2013 to me that\u2019s ridiculous.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Leni Riefenstahl also lived with the Nuba people.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: There\u2019s this amazing photo showing her standing on a sandy path next to a buck-naked Nuba twice her size.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Even if you, as a photographer, have the feeling that you\u2019re not really present \u2013 the observed person does perceive your presence and perhaps acts differently.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: I can\u2019t be the judge of that because I am not around to see when I\u2019m not present. No way of doing that, unfortunately. The lines between objectivity and subjectivity are completely fluid. Objective, subjective \u2013 it\u2019s an invalid differentiation. I can only photograph what fascinates me completely. Someone to whom I have absolutely no relation, that\u2019s going to be a bad photo. And it was the same thing with the rites. I also don\u2019t see myself at all as an ethnographic photographer, but as a photographer who takes pictures of whatever completely absorbs me.<\/p>\n<p>In photography, you are fully engaged in the moment in which you are taking the picture. Either you\u2019ve got it or you haven\u2019t. Especially when it comes to the ceremonies. I\u2019ve never said, \u201cDo that once more\u201d. That\u2019s nonsense, it doesn\u2019t work. But someone who writes can take notes or has something in their mind and can work it all out in peace \u2013 or less peaceful moments. That\u2019s not something a photographer can do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: For Hubert Fichte, what was the relationship between word and image? Did he not also see a rivalry between his texts and your photographs?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: No, he loved to describe things in total detail. If he hadn\u2019t, we would never have stayed so long in Brazil, for example, or anywhere else. He\u2019d always say, \u201cYou\u2019ve still got to take this and take that\u201d. The famous blood bath \u2013 it really thrilled him that I took that. Hubert Fichte reacted entirely positively to my way of taking photographs.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: What do you mean, \u201cpositively\u201d?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: The fact that we talked about it and that he helped me. But he never touched a camera: he said he never wanted to take a picture in his life. But the best photos of me were taken by him.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: What do you mean?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Exactly what I\u2019m saying. We were once sitting in a train opposite one another. The train was completely empty. And then he said, \u201cFocus the camera on me, then give me the camera and I\u2019ll take a picture of you\u201d. That\u2019s exactly what happened and it\u2019s one of the best photos of me ever taken.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Hubert Fichte\u2019s magnum opus, <em>Die Geschichte der Empfindlichkeit <\/em>(The History of Sensibility), begins when J\u00e4cki, a homosexual, and Irma becoming intimate with one another. It isn\u2019t difficult to see the two of you as J\u00e4cki and Irma. Is it not uncomfortable for you to be revealed in such a way?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: No, not at all. I\u2019ve been asked that many times. In interviews \u2013 one <em>SPIEGEL<\/em> journalist started off with \u201cpillow talk\u201d. I told him, \u201cI\u2019ll not say another word\u201d. But literature is literature. There, I\u2019m fully on the side of the word. If someone writes well they can write anything and everything.<\/p>\n<p>With the general decline of language we\u2019re seeing now, I think one has to form a relationship with language. That\u2019s why this country no longer has any power: language is going to seed. It has lost its credibility.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: When did that begin?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: I believe it\u2019s the result of losing two world wars. A country cannot get over that so easily. And of over-ageing. I\u2019m not exactly a spring chicken myself now. But keeping sharp about being here and observing, that\u2019s still very important to me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Are you referring to spoken or to written language?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Both. Well, the kinds of words you sometimes hear in the media, the way they are strung together, such endless chains of words. Of course, the language bandied about by politicians has also had a huge impact. That also is pretty dreadful.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Maybe it was in the past as well.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Yes, but in the past politicians weren\u2019t so much in your face. If people got to see their kaiser or their king just once a year, that was already a lot. These days, the poor people are sat in front of the television every day.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Running to 19 volumes, is surely one of the lengthiest novelistic projects ever. Did Hubert Fichte plan to create something of this size from the very outset?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Like anybody who is developing something entirely new, he rarely spoke about it because he himself had the feeling that it wasn\u2019t yet finished. Then, one day he came back from Weinstrasse \u2013 that\u2019s the main shopping street here in the Othmarschen neighbourhood of Hamburg, a couple of blocks away \u2013 carrying nine orange files. He announced he was throwing away all his old black ones and was going to start a new work. Then he explained it to me in length, and all of a sudden the place was full of orange files. He was very attached to seemingly innocuous things like that.<\/p>\n<p>Unfortunately, while working on it he fell very ill, went into hospital in January 1986 and was operated for lymphatic cancer. But he was able to give very precise instructions \u2013 it was his body that was affected, not his mind \u2013 as to when, what and what not, and how. Unfortunately, in our German republic there are still some philologists who persist on claiming that this is an unfinished novel. That\u2019s simply wrong.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: And do you know why he refused to publish certain finished sections until he had completed the entire <em>Die Geschichte der Empfindlichkeit<\/em>?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: I can\u2019t tell you that either. When he developed a concept for something, he didn\u2019t set forth explaining it, that was just the way it had to be.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Was he thinking of Proust, who only began publishing his <em>Recherche<\/em> towards the end of his life?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Maybe he was: he also deeply worshipped him.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Hubert Fichte died almost twenty years ago. Why is <em>Psyche<\/em>, the book of text and images about the mentally ill in Africa you jointly compiled, only now being published for the first time?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: The publisher had released <a href=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/en\/zum-werk\/fotobaende\/xango\/\"><em>Xango<\/em><\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/en\/zum-werk\/fotobaende\/petersilie\/\"><em>Petersilie<\/em><\/a>, two books of text and images about African-American religions, and it was supposed to be a trilogy. Two top-level people from the publishers were here and looked at the material on the light box, and were thrilled. Let\u2019s do it! Then the publisher came over straightaway: we sat here from morning till evening and discussed each page.<\/p>\n<p>Then Hubert Fichte\u2019s health increasingly deteriorated and he had to go to the hospital. And after the first operation I received a letter from Fischer Verlag saying that they had a new marketing person who\u2019d costed the publication and said, \u201cAre you crazy, it will be far too expensive\u201d. And then we received heart-rending letters saying they would go ahead with it nonetheless, and so on, and in the future\u2026 all these promises, but they never lifted a finger.<\/p>\n<p>I believe that if Hubert Fichte had not been ill they would have behaved differently. He could also get very aggressive. He once told me about a meeting with the publisher, Ms. Schoeller, where he said he wanted an advance, for this and that, I think it was about 50,000 marks. And she said, so you want to have some money? And he replied, no, I want to spend it.<\/p>\n<p>I then set <a href=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/en\/zum-werk\/fotobaende\/psyche\/\"><em>Psyche<\/em><\/a> aside and signed the contract for <em>Die Geschichte der Empfindlichkeit<\/em>. Then, for the next three or four years \u2013 I was hopeless at typing \u2013 I typed up the book, <em>Explosion<\/em>. That\u2019s over a thousand pages and in a handwriting that\u2019s hard to decipher. For me, at that time, photography was completely off limits for a while. But all the books came out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: So how did <em>Psyche<\/em> come to be published after all?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Ronald Kay, Pina Bausch\u2019s partner \u2013 I\u2019m very good friends with her as well \u2013 looked at the slides and said we should make a dummy. So we made laser copies of all the slides. A year ago, Ms. Schoeller, the publisher, received the mock-up for the first time and decided then and there to publish it. That\u2019s how excited she was.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: The layout is still\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: \u2026 It\u2019s Hubert Fichte\u2019s.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Are you still photographing?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Yes, photos that I fabricate myself. Using plants, shells, whatever is around in the house. They\u2019re called <a href=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/en\/zum-werk\/projekte-und-themen\/letzte-projekte\/fata-morgana\/\"><em>Fata Morgana<\/em><\/a>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Don\u2019t you miss taking photos outdoors, on trips?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Of course I do. At the moment I can\u2019t because with both knees having been operated on walking is quite hard. But if I were to be invited now, I\u2019d do it right away. As long as I had the money to pay someone to accompany me and carry the camera.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Even if it were far?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Yes, the long flight \u2013 you\u2019re being served, you watch a film, you\u2019re glad to be travelling so far away, you can look out of the window. What\u2019s so arduous about that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: As far as I know, you never travelled to Asia. Why was that?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Because that would be too much. Life is too short. Above all, you have to learn the languages and it all costs unbelievable amounts of money. We never received any public funding. Once we got something from a foundation, but it was just a modest sum. Actually, we earned it all ourselves. And to do that, you have to work a horrendous amount.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: You financed your trips with commissions from newspapers, magazines and radio.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: Yes, we planned and kick-started everything. There was always some part of the day when we would be glued to the phone for an hour or two. But then, off, off and away. I don\u2019t know how people can stand it, stuck here in Germany all the time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Did you never think of moving away for good?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: No, and not just because of the language, either.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: You\u2019ve been living in your current apartment almost since you moved in with Hubert Fichte.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: I should cast a gold statue of the owner of this building, really. Fine, people say the building needs this being done to it or that, that it ought to be renovated, but I don\u2019t really care. This person has never raised my rent since Hubert Fichte\u2019s death \u2013 out of sheer decency. I\u2019ve got tons of room here, I\u2019ve got a darkroom and it\u2019s an incredibly beautiful apartment.<\/p>\n<p>What day is today?<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: The first of April.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: The day of Hubert Fichte\u2019s funeral, April the first.<\/p>\n<p><strong>IN: Would you normally visit his grave?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LM: I\u2019m not one to visit graves, and nor was Hubert Fichte. We once talked about this for a long time. He was very attached to his grandmother and was very upset when she died, but he said he\u2019d never visit her grave.<\/p>\n<p>My views on this are less extreme. I had a very beautiful stone installed at the grave with a carved quote from Empedocles, whom he loved so much. I still remember a completely empty beach in Brazil and seeing him suddenly with a stick in his hand, the kind you find on the beach, and he\u2019d inscribed this sentence in the sand: <em>Before now I have been at some time boy and girl, bush, bird and a mute fish in the sea. <\/em><\/p>\n<p><\/div>\n<\/div><\/section><\/div><div  class='flex_column av-1lm6017-1ae4a42978acc6d73928375d14917228 av_one_half  avia-builder-el-14  el_after_av_one_half  el_before_av_hr  flex_column_div  '     ><p>\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-l7kbieqv-7c25b05e00c889ec980aaecb3ebe0b5c\">\n#top .hr.hr-invisible.av-l7kbieqv-7c25b05e00c889ec980aaecb3ebe0b5c{\nheight:15px;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='hr av-l7kbieqv-7c25b05e00c889ec980aaecb3ebe0b5c hr-invisible  avia-builder-el-15  el_before_av_image  avia-builder-el-first '><span class='hr-inner '><span class=\"hr-inner-style\"><\/span><\/span><\/div><br \/>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-1jh4q2j-2843347d96b8dc5618332d1a9e6b1195\">\n.avia-image-container.av-1jh4q2j-2843347d96b8dc5618332d1a9e6b1195 img.avia_image{\nbox-shadow:none;\n}\n.avia-image-container.av-1jh4q2j-2843347d96b8dc5618332d1a9e6b1195 .av-image-caption-overlay-center{\ncolor:#ffffff;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='avia-image-container av-1jh4q2j-2843347d96b8dc5618332d1a9e6b1195 av-styling- avia-align-left  avia-builder-el-16  el_after_av_hr  el_before_av_textblock '   itemprop=\"image\" itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" ><div class=\"avia-image-container-inner\"><div class=\"avia-image-overlay-wrap\"><img decoding=\"async\" fetchpriority=\"high\" class='wp-image-3160 avia-img-lazy-loading-not-3160 avia_image ' src=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/LM-502582-300x206.jpg\" alt='' title='LM-502582'  height=\"206\" width=\"300\"  itemprop=\"thumbnailUrl\" srcset=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/LM-502582-300x206.jpg 300w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/LM-502582-600x411.jpg 600w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/LM-502582-768x526.jpg 768w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/LM-502582-705x483.jpg 705w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/LM-502582.jpg 800w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><br \/>\n<section  class='av_textblock_section av-1h5bbiz-7f1feaa06c0aa6198defb55cdb399278 '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock img-caption-indi'  itemprop=\"text\" ><p>Untitled (Launches in the Port of Hamburg), 1966<br \/>\n\u00a9 bpk \/ S. Fischer Stiftung \/ Leonore Mau<\/p>\n<\/div><\/section><br \/>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-1ghwrqj-5468e803a46f1151b01ba20f731628c0\">\n.avia-image-container.av-1ghwrqj-5468e803a46f1151b01ba20f731628c0 img.avia_image{\nbox-shadow:none;\n}\n.avia-image-container.av-1ghwrqj-5468e803a46f1151b01ba20f731628c0 .av-image-caption-overlay-center{\ncolor:#ffffff;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='avia-image-container av-1ghwrqj-5468e803a46f1151b01ba20f731628c0 av-styling- avia-align-left  avia-builder-el-18  el_after_av_textblock  el_before_av_textblock '   itemprop=\"image\" itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" ><div class=\"avia-image-container-inner\"><div class=\"avia-image-overlay-wrap\"><img decoding=\"async\" fetchpriority=\"high\" class='wp-image-2295 avia-img-lazy-loading-not-2295 avia_image ' src=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70240911-300x296.jpg\" alt='' title='Ohne Titel (Maison Jaoul)'  height=\"296\" width=\"300\"  itemprop=\"thumbnailUrl\" srcset=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70240911-300x296.jpg 300w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70240911-100x100.jpg 100w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70240911-600x593.jpg 600w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70240911-1030x1017.jpg 1030w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70240911-80x80.jpg 80w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70240911-768x758.jpg 768w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70240911-36x36.jpg 36w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70240911-705x696.jpg 705w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70240911.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><br \/>\n<section  class='av_textblock_section av-1ehjqvf-8d6767f52bb7baf56a48f6ffc8da7671 '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock img-caption-indi'  itemprop=\"text\" ><p>Ohne Titel (Maison Jaoul), 1960<br \/>\n\u00a9 bpk \/ S. Fischer Stiftung \/ Leonore Mau<\/p>\n<\/div><\/section><br \/>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-1d57k9n-ddb74d2fee84400a2b4a870eb4542209\">\n.avia-image-container.av-1d57k9n-ddb74d2fee84400a2b4a870eb4542209 img.avia_image{\nbox-shadow:none;\n}\n.avia-image-container.av-1d57k9n-ddb74d2fee84400a2b4a870eb4542209 .av-image-caption-overlay-center{\ncolor:#ffffff;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='avia-image-container av-1d57k9n-ddb74d2fee84400a2b4a870eb4542209 av-styling- avia-align-left  avia-builder-el-20  el_after_av_textblock  el_before_av_textblock '   itemprop=\"image\" itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" ><div class=\"avia-image-container-inner\"><div class=\"avia-image-overlay-wrap\"><img decoding=\"async\" fetchpriority=\"high\" class='wp-image-2522 avia-img-lazy-loading-not-2522 avia_image ' src=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70363615-297x300.jpg\" alt='' title='Ohne Titel (Fischmarkt am Meer)'  height=\"300\" width=\"297\"  itemprop=\"thumbnailUrl\" srcset=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70363615-297x300.jpg 297w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70363615-300x303.jpg 300w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70363615-100x100.jpg 100w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70363615-600x606.jpg 600w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70363615-1020x1030.jpg 1020w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70363615-80x80.jpg 80w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70363615-768x776.jpg 768w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70363615-36x36.jpg 36w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70363615-698x705.jpg 698w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70363615.jpg 1188w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 297px) 100vw, 297px\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><br \/>\n<section  class='av_textblock_section av-1apncbv-b7d8770e81f8af0c466ae4d7233d1235 '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock img-caption-indi'  itemprop=\"text\" ><p>Untitled (Fish market by the sea), 1964<br \/>\n\u00a9 bpk \/ S. Fischer Stiftung \/ Leonore Mau<\/p>\n<\/div><\/section><br \/>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-1a8vk7v-51044ef2ce19c1009b5dff32f48e1dc1\">\n.avia-image-container.av-1a8vk7v-51044ef2ce19c1009b5dff32f48e1dc1 img.avia_image{\nbox-shadow:none;\n}\n.avia-image-container.av-1a8vk7v-51044ef2ce19c1009b5dff32f48e1dc1 .av-image-caption-overlay-center{\ncolor:#ffffff;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='avia-image-container av-1a8vk7v-51044ef2ce19c1009b5dff32f48e1dc1 av-styling- avia-align-left  avia-builder-el-22  el_after_av_textblock  el_before_av_textblock '   itemprop=\"image\" itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" ><div class=\"avia-image-container-inner\"><div class=\"avia-image-overlay-wrap\"><img decoding=\"async\" fetchpriority=\"high\" class='wp-image-2945 avia-img-lazy-loading-not-2945 avia_image ' src=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70247893-300x227.jpg\" alt='' title='Ohne Titel (Auf der Spanischen Treppe)'  height=\"227\" width=\"300\"  itemprop=\"thumbnailUrl\" srcset=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70247893-300x227.jpg 300w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70247893-600x455.jpg 600w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70247893-1030x780.jpg 1030w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70247893-768x582.jpg 768w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70247893-705x534.jpg 705w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70247893.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><br \/>\n<section  class='av_textblock_section av-189jm8b-ba9fce3a9721c3d74ca318920085dfb1 '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock img-caption-indi'  itemprop=\"text\" ><p>Untitled (On the Spanish Steps), 1967\/68<br \/>\n\u00a9 bpk \/ S. Fischer Stiftung \/ Leonore Mau<\/p>\n<\/div><\/section><br \/>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-15mj9ij-a5f9e5be6f368d51b8c40f0919578f20\">\n.avia-image-container.av-15mj9ij-a5f9e5be6f368d51b8c40f0919578f20 img.avia_image{\nbox-shadow:none;\n}\n.avia-image-container.av-15mj9ij-a5f9e5be6f368d51b8c40f0919578f20 .av-image-caption-overlay-center{\ncolor:#ffffff;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='avia-image-container av-15mj9ij-a5f9e5be6f368d51b8c40f0919578f20 av-styling- avia-align-left  avia-builder-el-24  el_after_av_textblock  el_before_av_textblock '   itemprop=\"image\" itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" ><div class=\"avia-image-container-inner\"><div class=\"avia-image-overlay-wrap\"><img decoding=\"async\" fetchpriority=\"high\" class='wp-image-3146 avia-img-lazy-loading-not-3146 avia_image ' src=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632977-300x189.jpg\" alt='' title='Ohne Titel (Priesterinnen des Tempels &quot;Casa das Minas&quot;)'  height=\"189\" width=\"300\"  itemprop=\"thumbnailUrl\" srcset=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632977-300x189.jpg 300w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632977-600x379.jpg 600w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632977-1030x650.jpg 1030w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632977-768x484.jpg 768w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632977-705x445.jpg 705w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632977.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><br \/>\n<section  class='av_textblock_section av-14o81x7-8bff2f06ec6b630dad2fd21c4ada5eed '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock img-caption-indi'  itemprop=\"text\" ><p>Untitled (Priestesses of the <em>Casa das Minas<\/em> Temple), 1981\/82<br \/>\n\u00a9 bpk \/ S. Fischer Stiftung \/ Leonore Mau<\/p>\n<\/div><\/section><br \/>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-12fy6ff-7310b138867d7196df384eb8d0467281\">\n.avia-image-container.av-12fy6ff-7310b138867d7196df384eb8d0467281 img.avia_image{\nbox-shadow:none;\n}\n.avia-image-container.av-12fy6ff-7310b138867d7196df384eb8d0467281 .av-image-caption-overlay-center{\ncolor:#ffffff;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='avia-image-container av-12fy6ff-7310b138867d7196df384eb8d0467281 av-styling- avia-align-left  avia-builder-el-26  el_after_av_textblock  el_before_av_textblock '   itemprop=\"image\" itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" ><div class=\"avia-image-container-inner\"><div class=\"avia-image-overlay-wrap\"><img decoding=\"async\" fetchpriority=\"high\" class='wp-image-3135 avia-img-lazy-loading-not-3135 avia_image ' src=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632849-205x300.jpg\" alt='' title='Ohne Titel (Hubert Fichte beim 106-j\u00e4hrigen K\u00f6nig von Abomey)'  height=\"300\" width=\"205\"  itemprop=\"thumbnailUrl\" srcset=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632849-205x300.jpg 205w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632849-300x440.jpg 300w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632849-600x880.jpg 600w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632849-702x1030.jpg 702w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632849-768x1127.jpg 768w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632849-481x705.jpg 481w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632849.jpg 818w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 205px) 100vw, 205px\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><br \/>\n<section  class='av_textblock_section av-118kr0b-63367c7bf19b8414095a01c7bc68cfc3 '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock img-caption-indi'  itemprop=\"text\" ><p>Untitled (Hubert Fichte at the 106-year-old<br \/>\nKing of Abomey), 1975<br \/>\n\u00a9 bpk \/ S. Fischer Stiftung \/ Leonore Mau<\/p>\n<\/div><\/section><br \/>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-zbiojv-8c48812cb5a98f90e715a02e1a75ea23\">\n.avia-image-container.av-zbiojv-8c48812cb5a98f90e715a02e1a75ea23 img.avia_image{\nbox-shadow:none;\n}\n.avia-image-container.av-zbiojv-8c48812cb5a98f90e715a02e1a75ea23 .av-image-caption-overlay-center{\ncolor:#ffffff;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='avia-image-container av-zbiojv-8c48812cb5a98f90e715a02e1a75ea23 av-styling- avia-align-left  avia-builder-el-28  el_after_av_textblock  el_before_av_textblock '   itemprop=\"image\" itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" ><div class=\"avia-image-container-inner\"><div class=\"avia-image-overlay-wrap\"><img decoding=\"async\" fetchpriority=\"high\" class='wp-image-2601 avia-img-lazy-loading-not-2601 avia_image ' src=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70368884-209x300.jpg\" alt='' title='Ohne Titel (Afrikanischer Junge mit Blister-Maske)'  height=\"300\" width=\"209\"  itemprop=\"thumbnailUrl\" srcset=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70368884-209x300.jpg 209w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70368884-300x431.jpg 300w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70368884-600x862.jpg 600w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70368884-717x1030.jpg 717w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70368884-768x1104.jpg 768w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70368884-491x705.jpg 491w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70368884.jpg 835w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 209px) 100vw, 209px\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><br \/>\n<section  class='av_textblock_section av-y4fr7v-6ec9fb6bbf9e686b32d64dcf4e3f71db '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock img-caption-indi'  itemprop=\"text\" ><p>Untitled (African Boy with Blister Mask), 1975<br \/>\n\u00a9 bpk \/ S. Fischer Stiftung \/ Leonore Mau<\/p>\n<\/div><\/section><br \/>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-wjjcxn-5f0eabcf390d72965da0bf96fa2fdb2c\">\n.avia-image-container.av-wjjcxn-5f0eabcf390d72965da0bf96fa2fdb2c img.avia_image{\nbox-shadow:none;\n}\n.avia-image-container.av-wjjcxn-5f0eabcf390d72965da0bf96fa2fdb2c .av-image-caption-overlay-center{\ncolor:#ffffff;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='avia-image-container av-wjjcxn-5f0eabcf390d72965da0bf96fa2fdb2c av-styling- avia-align-left  avia-builder-el-30  el_after_av_textblock  el_before_av_textblock '   itemprop=\"image\" itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" ><div class=\"avia-image-container-inner\"><div class=\"avia-image-overlay-wrap\"><img decoding=\"async\" fetchpriority=\"high\" class='wp-image-2487 avia-img-lazy-loading-not-2487 avia_image ' src=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70353659-233x300.jpg\" alt='' title='Ohne Titel (Hubert Fichte in der Psychiatrie von Fann)'  height=\"300\" width=\"233\"  itemprop=\"thumbnailUrl\" srcset=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70353659-233x300.jpg 233w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70353659-300x387.jpg 300w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70353659-600x774.jpg 600w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70353659-798x1030.jpg 798w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70353659-768x991.jpg 768w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70353659-546x705.jpg 546w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70353659.jpg 930w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 233px) 100vw, 233px\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><br \/>\n<section  class='av_textblock_section av-33pf9n-287e2facc508a18746152af0527baa82 '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock img-caption-indi'  itemprop=\"text\" ><p>Ohne Titel (Hubert Fichte in psychiatry<br \/>\nin Fann), 1976<br \/>\n\u00a9 bpk \/ S. Fischer Stiftung \/ Leonore Mau<\/p>\n<\/div><\/section><br \/>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-svmcff-533cefcfc017410b238c2ffe14a7af83\">\n.avia-image-container.av-svmcff-533cefcfc017410b238c2ffe14a7af83 img.avia_image{\nbox-shadow:none;\n}\n.avia-image-container.av-svmcff-533cefcfc017410b238c2ffe14a7af83 .av-image-caption-overlay-center{\ncolor:#ffffff;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='avia-image-container av-svmcff-533cefcfc017410b238c2ffe14a7af83 av-styling- avia-align-left  avia-builder-el-32  el_after_av_textblock  el_before_av_textblock '   itemprop=\"image\" itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" ><div class=\"avia-image-container-inner\"><div class=\"avia-image-overlay-wrap\"><img decoding=\"async\" fetchpriority=\"high\" class='wp-image-3161 avia-img-lazy-loading-not-3161 avia_image ' src=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/HF_MG_9234-300x200.jpg\" alt='' title='HF_MG_9234'  height=\"200\" width=\"300\"  itemprop=\"thumbnailUrl\" srcset=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/HF_MG_9234-300x200.jpg 300w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/HF_MG_9234-600x400.jpg 600w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/HF_MG_9234-1030x687.jpg 1030w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/HF_MG_9234-768x512.jpg 768w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/HF_MG_9234-705x470.jpg 705w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/HF_MG_9234.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><br \/>\n<section  class='av_textblock_section av-2o6ft7-879c60234dae533765a37e2a273da807 '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock img-caption-indi'  itemprop=\"text\" ><p>Untitled (Hubert Fichte in Trinidad), 1974<br \/>\nIn the picture book <em>H\u00e4lfte des Lebens. Leonore Mau:<br \/>\nHubert Fichte. Eine fotographische Elegie<br \/>\nvon Ronald Kay<\/em><br \/>\n\u00a9 Nathalie David<\/p>\n<\/div><\/section><br \/>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-2mncsb-246c53468345cd3b90e62790ad499db0\">\n.avia-image-container.av-2mncsb-246c53468345cd3b90e62790ad499db0 img.avia_image{\nbox-shadow:none;\n}\n.avia-image-container.av-2mncsb-246c53468345cd3b90e62790ad499db0 .av-image-caption-overlay-center{\ncolor:#ffffff;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='avia-image-container av-2mncsb-246c53468345cd3b90e62790ad499db0 av-styling- avia-align-left  avia-builder-el-34  el_after_av_textblock  el_before_av_textblock '   itemprop=\"image\" itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" ><div class=\"avia-image-container-inner\"><div class=\"avia-image-overlay-wrap\"><img decoding=\"async\" fetchpriority=\"high\" class='wp-image-2603 avia-img-lazy-loading-not-2603 avia_image ' src=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70368969-300x212.jpg\" alt='' title='Ohne Titel (Das Blutbad)'  height=\"212\" width=\"300\"  itemprop=\"thumbnailUrl\" srcset=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70368969-300x212.jpg 300w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70368969-600x424.jpg 600w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70368969-1030x727.jpg 1030w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70368969-768x542.jpg 768w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70368969-260x185.jpg 260w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70368969-705x498.jpg 705w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70368969.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><br \/>\n<section  class='av_textblock_section av-ol32nf-5375fae4be3578e425efa544b904b941 '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock img-caption-indi'  itemprop=\"text\" ><p>Untitled (The bloodbath), 1971<br \/>\n\u00a9 bpk \/ S. Fischer Stiftung \/ Leonore Mau<\/p>\n<\/div><\/section><br \/>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-mllrrf-6821726a3bbe34c4c736b00bec77821b\">\n.avia-image-container.av-mllrrf-6821726a3bbe34c4c736b00bec77821b img.avia_image{\nbox-shadow:none;\n}\n.avia-image-container.av-mllrrf-6821726a3bbe34c4c736b00bec77821b .av-image-caption-overlay-center{\ncolor:#ffffff;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='avia-image-container av-mllrrf-6821726a3bbe34c4c736b00bec77821b av-styling- avia-align-left  avia-builder-el-36  el_after_av_textblock  el_before_av_textblock '   itemprop=\"image\" itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" ><div class=\"avia-image-container-inner\"><div class=\"avia-image-overlay-wrap\"><img decoding=\"async\" fetchpriority=\"high\" class='wp-image-2493 avia-img-lazy-loading-not-2493 avia_image ' src=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70353672-300x234.jpg\" alt='' title='Fahrt nach Karlsruhe'  height=\"234\" width=\"300\"  itemprop=\"thumbnailUrl\" srcset=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70353672-300x234.jpg 300w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70353672-600x468.jpg 600w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70353672-1030x803.jpg 1030w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70353672-768x598.jpg 768w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70353672-705x549.jpg 705w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70353672.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><br \/>\n<section  class='av_textblock_section av-knimff-5bae6ba49ee20ed8dd571b59bc56c724 '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock img-caption-indi'  itemprop=\"text\" ><p>Fahrt nach Karlsruhe, 1965<br \/>\n\u00a9 bpk \/ S. Fischer Stiftung \/ Hubert Fichte<\/p>\n<\/div><\/section><br \/>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-j8kch7-532e9ded2cd496c10e6d3055c3bdc412\">\n.avia-image-container.av-j8kch7-532e9ded2cd496c10e6d3055c3bdc412 img.avia_image{\nbox-shadow:none;\n}\n.avia-image-container.av-j8kch7-532e9ded2cd496c10e6d3055c3bdc412 .av-image-caption-overlay-center{\ncolor:#ffffff;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='avia-image-container av-j8kch7-532e9ded2cd496c10e6d3055c3bdc412 av-styling- avia-align-left  avia-builder-el-38  el_after_av_textblock  el_before_av_textblock '   itemprop=\"image\" itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" ><div class=\"avia-image-container-inner\"><div class=\"avia-image-overlay-wrap\"><img decoding=\"async\" fetchpriority=\"high\" class='wp-image-3162 avia-img-lazy-loading-not-3162 avia_image ' src=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/PSY_MG_9175-300x200.jpg\" alt='' title='PSY_MG_9175'  height=\"200\" width=\"300\"  itemprop=\"thumbnailUrl\" srcset=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/PSY_MG_9175-300x200.jpg 300w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/PSY_MG_9175-600x400.jpg 600w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/PSY_MG_9175-1030x687.jpg 1030w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/PSY_MG_9175-768x512.jpg 768w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/PSY_MG_9175-705x470.jpg 705w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/PSY_MG_9175.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><br \/>\n<section  class='av_textblock_section av-hqph3f-623a064150dcf3d71b0031a6cd4e0f28 '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock img-caption-indi'  itemprop=\"text\" ><p>The picture book <em>Psyche<\/em><br \/>\n\u00a9 Nathalie David<\/p>\n<\/div><\/section><br \/>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-f3rh97-050b73c2cdd01146c36a5ab480c560c0\">\n.avia-image-container.av-f3rh97-050b73c2cdd01146c36a5ab480c560c0 img.avia_image{\nbox-shadow:none;\n}\n.avia-image-container.av-f3rh97-050b73c2cdd01146c36a5ab480c560c0 .av-image-caption-overlay-center{\ncolor:#ffffff;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='avia-image-container av-f3rh97-050b73c2cdd01146c36a5ab480c560c0 av-styling- avia-align-left  avia-builder-el-40  el_after_av_textblock  el_before_av_textblock '   itemprop=\"image\" itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" ><div class=\"avia-image-container-inner\"><div class=\"avia-image-overlay-wrap\"><img decoding=\"async\" fetchpriority=\"high\" class='wp-image-2622 avia-img-lazy-loading-not-2622 avia_image ' src=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632857-201x300.jpg\" alt='' title='Fata Morgana'  height=\"300\" width=\"201\"  itemprop=\"thumbnailUrl\" srcset=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632857-201x300.jpg 201w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632857-300x448.jpg 300w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632857-600x897.jpg 600w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632857-689x1030.jpg 689w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632857-768x1148.jpg 768w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632857-472x705.jpg 472w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/70632857.jpg 803w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 201px) 100vw, 201px\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><br \/>\n<section  class='av_textblock_section av-e0cdaj-91f82e5dc39a50dddf22ef449caeecfd '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock img-caption-indi'  itemprop=\"text\" ><p><em>Fata Morgana<\/em>, c. 2002<br \/>\n\u00a9 bpk \/ S. Fischer Stiftung \/ Leonore Mau<\/p>\n<\/div><\/section><\/p><\/div><\/p>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-l7etozeq-2ceee621ba2bb952ab1199216a53a01f\">\n#top .hr.hr-invisible.av-l7etozeq-2ceee621ba2bb952ab1199216a53a01f{\nheight:120px;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='hr av-l7etozeq-2ceee621ba2bb952ab1199216a53a01f hr-invisible  avia-builder-el-42  el_after_av_one_half  el_before_av_one_full '><span class='hr-inner '><span class=\"hr-inner-style\"><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n<div  class='flex_column av-2vli0b-cd28a793f7d52a6f923e31d3fe7818cd av_one_full  avia-builder-el-43  el_after_av_hr  el_before_av_hr  first flex_column_div  '     ><section  class='av_textblock_section av-l7etpl7h-79af86aefc315e8b1d8d731dc3a3c785 '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock'  itemprop=\"text\" ><h4><strong>Nathalie David<\/strong><strong> in an Interview with Leonore Mau (April 2006)<\/strong><\/h4>\n<p>Excerpt from the interview. Conducted in D\u00fcrerstra\u00dfe 9 in the Othmarschen of Hamburg.<\/p>\n<\/div><\/section><\/div>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-59bx4b-cfa3f65ec298143f113e2ccdd393c1f0\">\n#top .hr.hr-invisible.av-59bx4b-cfa3f65ec298143f113e2ccdd393c1f0{\nheight:25px;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='hr av-59bx4b-cfa3f65ec298143f113e2ccdd393c1f0 hr-invisible  avia-builder-el-45  el_after_av_one_full  el_before_av_one_half '><span class='hr-inner '><span class=\"hr-inner-style\"><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n<div  class='flex_column av-c6ionf-737ab4005104790f0af61e1e63f7c07c av_one_half  avia-builder-el-46  el_after_av_hr  el_before_av_one_half  first flex_column_div  '     ><section  id=\"nathalie-david\"  class='av_textblock_section av-au0aa3-6ed9572d8445906e81a8751a50a66d34 '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock'  itemprop=\"text\" ><p>Leonore Mau (LM): We wanted to go to <a href=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/zum-werk\/rituale\/brasilien\/\">Brazil<\/a>, that had always been our dream but the travel was simply very expensive.<\/p>\n<p>From one day to the next we bought the ticket and got the plane. We wanted first of all to see what Brazil really looked like! We had learnt to speak Portuguese properly. If you don\u2019t speak a language here\u2019s barely nothing you can do. That was the problem in <a href=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/en\/zum-werk\/rituale\/westafrika\/\">Africa<\/a>. If you can\u2019t speak a country\u2019s language there is always distance between you and the people.<\/p>\n<p>One evening we were in a favela. Hubert Fichte said, when we hear drumming the first thing we should do is stand still, then follow the drum rhythms. We heard the drums and came to a halt in front of a hut. We had been standing there for barely five minutes when a woman came out and started talking to us in Portuguese.<\/p>\n<p>And then we told her what we wanted and who we were, and she replied: \u201cCome in!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>It was so impressive how deeply immersed they were in this ritual. For them, nothing else mattered other than the gods, the dances and the chants. I was totally entranced! I could barely contain myself. I still can\u2019t, even now, when I describe it.<\/p>\n<p>Candombl\u00e9, this rite. It\u2019s everywhere in Brazil, even in the south in Sao Paulo. But the classical place for it is Salvador in Bahia. And that\u2019s where we then went to.<\/p>\n<p>I am not really afraid of dangers because people always exaggerate them.<\/p>\n<p>Only once, in Rio, I was stopped on the street and told, \u201cYou shouldn\u2019t be walking around here on your own\u201d. And I asked, \u201cWhy not?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cIt\u2019s too dangerous!\u201d And then I told them that I take photographs. \u201cThen we\u2019ll accompany you!\u201d I thought, \u201cOh God!\u201d So they then kept following me around. I wasn\u2019t at all happy about that.<\/p>\n<div id=\"links2-link-5213\" class=\"sh-link links2-link sh-hide\"><a href=\"#\" onclick=\"showhide_toggle('links2', 5213, '&gt;&gt;&gt;Read more', '&gt;&gt;&gt;Show less'); return false;\" aria-expanded=\"false\"><span id=\"links2-toggle-5213\">&gt;&gt;&gt;Read more<\/span><\/a><\/div><div id=\"links2-content-5213\" class=\"sh-content links2-content sh-hide\" style=\"display: none;\"><\/p>\n<p>The way I photograph is hard to describe because I don\u2019t really have a concept for it. Instead all I have is the capacity to start talking to people I happen to like. I would never just suddenly ambush people and announce, \u201cHello, you are interesting! Click, click!\u201d (laughs) That\u2019s not my thing!<\/p>\n<p>I observer! Suddenly it strikes me how beautiful or interesting someone looks. It could be a child, it could be an adult.<\/p>\n<p>I always took two cameras with me. Two completely identical Leicas.<\/p>\n<p>Of course, they are quite heavy to carry around. How often in my life I have screwed on or unscrewed lenses and put them in their pouches\u2026 a hundred thousand times! Occasionally I switched them, to black-and-white or to colour, but not always.<\/p>\n<p>The first photo I took of Allende was a disaster because the Hasselblad is so loud that the poor man was utterly startled. He was really in danger, because two years later he was dead.<\/p>\n<p>Feeling very guilty, I put the Hasselblad to one side and continued photographing with the Leica. Which is extremely quiet.<\/p>\n<p>When we got back, I picked the photos up from PPS (FC Gundlach\u2019s lab) and then went through them at home with y heart pounding. Then Hubert Fichte joined me. We sat there till five in the morning. At one point we nearly had a fight over one shot that I insisted on being included. And he said, \u201cNo, that\u2019s kitsch! You can\u2019t include that one!\u201d It was taken near the famous waterfalls \u201cSaut d\u2019Eau\u201d in Haiti, where festivities take place each year. I thought it ought to be included. \u201cNo, it should be left out!\u201d \u201cNo, it should be included!\u201d \u201cNo, you can bin it immediately!\u201d \u201cNo, I\u2019m not going to chuck it out!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The point being, there was a woman lying in the water. Those waterfalls are quite turbulent, and she is holding her little child \u2013 I don\u2019t know whether it was her own \u2013 in both hands, she was holding the child with its head tilted backwards into the waterfall. I thought it was so good! And for him it was kitsch. So it isn\u2019t in the book, but I didn\u2019t throw it away.<\/p>\n<p>The idea for <a href=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/en\/zum-werk\/fotofilme\/die-spanische-treppe\/\"><em>Die Spanische Treppe<\/em><\/a> was mine, but Hubert accepted it straightaway. Yes, he thought it was a great subject. The visual complexity of all these totally different people gathered there and who had not squabbled, or at least not ostensibly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nathalie David (ND): Who was important for your work?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Leonore Mau (LM): Le bon Dieu! (laughs)<\/p>\n<p><\/div>\n<\/div><\/section><\/div><div  class='flex_column av-90utjv-b823e89f200529e7853d68134d82f31d av_one_half  avia-builder-el-48  el_after_av_one_half  avia-builder-el-last  flex_column_div  '     ><p>\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-20rw0r-5c616b523c33e30c50896c10177a5e71\">\n#top .hr.hr-invisible.av-20rw0r-5c616b523c33e30c50896c10177a5e71{\nheight:15px;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='hr av-20rw0r-5c616b523c33e30c50896c10177a5e71 hr-invisible  avia-builder-el-49  el_before_av_image  avia-builder-el-first '><span class='hr-inner '><span class=\"hr-inner-style\"><\/span><\/span><\/div><br \/>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-l7kcfdqg-8b6c1cbdfb15056ed4f5c9503f64ac08\">\n.avia-image-container.av-l7kcfdqg-8b6c1cbdfb15056ed4f5c9503f64ac08 img.avia_image{\nbox-shadow:none;\n}\n.avia-image-container.av-l7kcfdqg-8b6c1cbdfb15056ed4f5c9503f64ac08 .av-image-caption-overlay-center{\ncolor:#ffffff;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='avia-image-container av-l7kcfdqg-8b6c1cbdfb15056ed4f5c9503f64ac08 av-styling- avia-align-left  avia-builder-el-50  el_after_av_hr  el_before_av_textblock '   itemprop=\"image\" itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" ><div class=\"avia-image-container-inner\"><div class=\"avia-image-overlay-wrap\"><img decoding=\"async\" fetchpriority=\"high\" class='wp-image-5124 avia-img-lazy-loading-not-5124 avia_image ' src=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LEONORE-MAU_Nd2005-300x225.jpg\" alt='' title='LEONORE-MAU_Nd2005'  height=\"225\" width=\"300\"  itemprop=\"thumbnailUrl\" srcset=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LEONORE-MAU_Nd2005-300x225.jpg 300w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LEONORE-MAU_Nd2005-1030x772.jpg 1030w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LEONORE-MAU_Nd2005-768x576.jpg 768w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LEONORE-MAU_Nd2005-1536x1152.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LEONORE-MAU_Nd2005-2048x1536.jpg 2048w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LEONORE-MAU_Nd2005-1500x1125.jpg 1500w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LEONORE-MAU_Nd2005-705x529.jpg 705w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LEONORE-MAU_Nd2005-450x337.jpg 450w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LEONORE-MAU_Nd2005-600x450.jpg 600w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><br \/>\n<section  class='av_textblock_section av-5qdk63-29d2899abda9a925045635bee6c542ce '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock img-caption-indi'  itemprop=\"text\" ><p>Untitled (Leonore Mau on her 90th birthday), 2005<br \/>\n\u00a9 Nathalie David<\/p>\n<\/div><\/section><br \/>\n\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-l7omhfo9-4e8aadbac81b4a645f117b9544071639\">\n.avia-image-container.av-l7omhfo9-4e8aadbac81b4a645f117b9544071639 img.avia_image{\nbox-shadow:none;\n}\n.avia-image-container.av-l7omhfo9-4e8aadbac81b4a645f117b9544071639 .av-image-caption-overlay-center{\ncolor:#ffffff;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='avia-image-container av-l7omhfo9-4e8aadbac81b4a645f117b9544071639 av-styling- avia-align-left  avia-builder-el-52  el_after_av_textblock  el_before_av_textblock '   itemprop=\"image\" itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" ><div class=\"avia-image-container-inner\"><div class=\"avia-image-overlay-wrap\"><img decoding=\"async\" fetchpriority=\"high\" class='wp-image-4828 avia-img-lazy-loading-not-4828 avia_image ' src=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LM_2006_Nd-300x224.jpg\" alt='' title='LM_2006_Nd'  height=\"224\" width=\"300\"  itemprop=\"thumbnailUrl\" srcset=\"https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LM_2006_Nd-300x224.jpg 300w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LM_2006_Nd-1030x767.jpg 1030w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LM_2006_Nd-768x572.jpg 768w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LM_2006_Nd-705x525.jpg 705w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LM_2006_Nd-450x335.jpg 450w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LM_2006_Nd-600x447.jpg 600w, https:\/\/leonore-mau.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/LM_2006_Nd.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><br \/>\n<section  class='av_textblock_section av-212tjf-02bbbc38f2c520a9be7e8a91cea5c887 '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/CreativeWork\" ><div class='avia_textblock img-caption-indi'  itemprop=\"text\" ><p>Ohne Titel (Portrait of Leonore Mau), 2007<br \/>\n\u00a9 Nathalie David<\/p>\n<\/div><\/section><\/p><\/div><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"parent":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-5213","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.3 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Interviews - Leonore Mau<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Leonore Mau (1916-2013). 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